why are you awake on this >> we've got chris who writes, the power and sometimes advantage of adderall, one can get a lot done in the wee hours. >> yes, you can. >> ken writes, i'm up this early because i just got back from the casino. "argo" and daniel day lewis won me some serious coin. >> we love the people ending their day with this. they were two of the favorites. they must have went 2-1 because they weren't long shots by any stretch of the imagination. thanks, joe. "morning joe" begins right now.

and now for the moment we have all been waiting for -- and the oscar goes to -- "argo." congratulations. >> well, good morning. it's monday, february 25th, welcome to "morning joe." everyone's a little tired here for some reason. with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. wake up, mike. and the president of the council on foreign relations -- you were not up. richard was. it was so good. >> how many times have you been now? >> you haven't been. >> 13th time. >> willie, have you been? >> i have not been to the opera. >> it's really good. lincoln center. >> i walked past the fountain at the lincoln center. >> you have to go. i'm going to force you. >> on the way to p.j. clark's.

>> right across. obviously, we have a lot to talk about. coming up, the sequester, of course, is going down to the wire. robert gibbs had some interesting comments on drones which we'll talk about. but, of course, it was the big night at the oscars that everyone is probably still talking about this morning. complete with some redemption for ben affleck. affleck and the crew of "argo" beat out films like "lincoln" and "silver linings playbook" to win best picture. but "lincoln" had its day in the sun as daniel day-lewis earned his third academy award for best actor. the most ever in that category. jennifer lawrence took home the best actress oscar for her performance in "silver linings playbook." she stumbled a bit on her way to the stage. i hate it when that happens. but she's doing just fine. absolutely. >> oh, don't. >> don't loop it. >> what are you doing? >> stop it! come on! >> who would do that? >> t.j. >> no, he's not here today. >> no, he's on remote.

>> some sickos in the booth. who is it? >> it's an infection. >> alex, who's there? >> no, come on. let's keep going. >> it's t.j. >> t.j., you look different. >> i'm going to follow him around with a camera. >> how exciting for her to win? >> i loved that movie. and she was fantastic. i kind of had hoped that bradley would win, but at the same time, there were -- it was a tough crowd. >> wow, tough crowd. go ahead, tell us who else wins and then i'm going to talk about seth macfarlane who got absolutely destroyed on twitter online. >> unfairly. >> unfairly. >> he's a talented guy. >> rounding out the award winners were anne hathaway who won best supporting actress. also christopher waltz who took home best supporting actor, also

"life of pi" director. before we get to all the speeches, very exciting, poor seth macfarlane who i don't really know. i understand he does "family guy." either you love "family guy" or i absolutely hate "family guy." >> he did "ted." >> he did "ted." you like that. >> i saw the bear. >> was he really that bad? >> no. >> i hate the shmaltzy stuff where they get up and play hollywood. >> tremendously talented. very funny jokes. song and dance, tremendously talented. he reminded me of you. >> not the singing, dancing and other talents. you have to remember, everyone hates everything on twitter. >> of course. >> let me throw that out. i think he was just different. and he was also -- he's not one of them, do you know what i mean? so he comes into that room, and they're going, wait a minute. who is this guy making fun of us? >> "american dud." come on. >> there's "the washington

post." >> he's an oscar guy. >> we have a lot of news to get to still. >> he's from connecticut. >> is he really? >> what part? >> kent, connecticut. >> i love kent. >> rhode island school of design and most interesting, missed because he had a hangover, had a hangover, missed one of the flights leaving boston on september 11th. >> you're kidding me. >> seth macfarlane? >> you're making this stuff up. >> i don't know why you know all that. >> that's pretty good. i don't know. >> highlights from last night. >> "argo" tells the previously classified story about an american hostage rescue in post-revolutionary iran. the story was so top secret that the film's director is unknown to the academy. jennifer lawrence has a great attitude about this whole thing. this is a charming, talented woman. i was talking to her backstage. she told me whether she wins or

loses, it's just an honor that meryl streep wasn't nominated. "django unchanged." now, that was an intense film. this is the story of a man fighting to get back his woman who's been subjected to unthinkable violence. or as chris brown and rihanna call it, a date movie. oh. this is interesting. daniel day-lewis, not the first actor to be nominated for playing lincoln. raymond massy portrayed him in 1940s abe lincoln in illinois. this is true. i would -- yeah. i would argue, however, that the actor who really got inside lincoln's head was john wilkes booth. really, 150 years and it's still too soon. >> yeah, it is. >> so jimmy kimmel had done a jfk joke at one time, that was the same punch line. oh, 50 years later. the second he started telling --

okay, this is all about the too soon? too soon? >> too soon. >> you still think it's too soon. >> absolutely. >> okay. >> whatever. i think most people agree with you, by the way. so he wasn't so horrible, was he? >> he was just unconventional. they're used to more ♪ song and dance and it's hollywood ♪ >> i told you. i told you. >> seth can sing and dance, but he didn't do all that. he didn't give them what they're used to seeing. it will settle in and they'll like it today. >> i bet you'd be adorable. >> that shatner stuff was something. >> oh, the shatner stuff. i missed that. i was walking out of the room dealing with kids. okay. all right. should we do news, please? begging you. >> daniel day-lewis was fantastic. >> and funny in his acceptance speech. >> jennifer lawrence. >> we talk about "argo" getting best picture rather than "lincoln." >> that was interesting. i thought that was going to be happening. >> in 10, 20 years people are

going to be thinking about "argo" and not "lincoln." >> this is not being disrespectful of anybody associated with the movie or ben affleck, but i will tell you, "town" was far superior to "argo." "argo" was a good movie, but you want to give ben affleck an oscar? all i'm saying is, it was a really good movie, but i think you're right. i think they felt really bad about snubbing him. so they gave it to him in the end. but "lincoln," i think, is a movie that's going to stand the test of time. >> the "argo" thing is interesting. if you went back a month, two months ago, it wasn't even mentioned as best picture candidate. he doesn't get nominated for director, so he wins all these other awards and this momentum builds. so in a weird, perverse way, the snub probably helped "argo" get the best picture. >> who knows? >> let's not take anything away from him. >> that was a great movie. >> you loved the movie. the only point is, it's not even the best he's done.

but then again, john lennon didn't get a grammy for anything. >> i swear to god, i thought i just saw louis in that video. >> it's too soon to make any jokes. >> i'd kill anybody that would make a joke about john lennon. >> more on the oscars coming up. a couple more stories this morning. it's already nine past the hour. did you see this? i'm very happy about this. >> i stumbled outside the orphanage and picked up "the new york times" and i saw this on the cover of "new york times" magazine. we're in for a long day. >> no, you're in for a long spring. >> is that mesquite barbecue chip? >> you know, i can't just eat one. seriously, i had two bags yesterday. because i saw it. and something flew into my head. i had two of those bags. >> thank god for this article. that's all i'm going to say. thank god. stop. >> by the way, look at this. is that impressive or not?

>> "minding mika." >> thank god for this article. okay. >> be careful. my youngest daughter. >> that's norah o'donnell. >> that wasn't you. >> looks good, really good. no, really, that's fine. so this article -- >> there's got to be one more picture of you. >> very excited about it. i'm writing a book that comes out in may that i thought you all would think is crazy, but you can't anymore. >> they basically say the same thing you say. >> yeah. i just say it in more of a personal way. let's go now with news. we'll get to that later. >> hold on. >> we're going to talk about the sequester. stop. >> hold on a second. huh? sass. there we go. >> the medium. >> first communion outfit. >> look at this. the first communion outfit. and look at this. >> or i could go scrub the floor. >> for work and play. >> that's enough now. >> stop it.

i think that's a great, great picture. >> the book. that's the book about food right there. >> and the family. >> we're going to get to the news now. officials on the state level are trying to prepare for those across-the-board cuts set to kick in on friday. automatic funding reductions known as sequestration that would slash $85 billion in spending. president obama will meet with the nation's governors at the white house today after the administration rolled out new details over the weekend describing what impact the cuts will have across the country. according to the report, the effects include tens of thousands of lost jobs as well as fewer resources for education and the environment, but some republicans say the white house is more interested in scaring people than finding a solution. >> senator coburn, is the president exaggerating the impact of these cuts? >> absolutely. it's a terrible way to cut spending. i don't disagree with that. but to not cut 2.5% out of the

total budget over a year when it's twice the size it was ten years ago, give me a break. >> in "politico," by the way, there were tons of opinion pieces over the weekend on this. we pulled out a few here that really captured the conversation about this. rich lowrie writes about the panic. >> when you have a brzezinski circling one of your columns, you might be making some good points. >> that doesn't mean i agree with it. >> he made some great points. you said i can't say this on tv, but this is a really great op-ed that i agree with 100%. >> i really didn't say that. "prepare for the end of food safety as we have known it. for a breakdown in public order. for little children languishing in ignorance. if only edward gibbon were here to chronicle the devastation. on march 1st, the fabric of our civilization begins to unwind. that's when the economy begins

to stall and we turn back on our values all because the federal government will have to begin to cut a few tens of billions of dollars from the largest budget the world has ever known over the next ten years. the sequester amounts to a $1.16 trillion cut, or roughly 3 cents on every federal dollar. if we can't squeeze a couple of pennies out of every dollar, we might as well begin our great national bankruptcy proceedings right now. it's hard to see how a cut of a little more than $40 billion this year can possibly tank a $16 trillion economy. what i do agree with is how can you not cut $85 billion responsibly? how can they not come together and figure this out? >> and by the way, take what rich said, combine that with what tom coburnsaid, talking about how the budget has doubled over the past decade. so really what we're talking about is we can't take 3 cents out of a dollar today, but putting it in historical perspective, that's 3 cents out

of a hyper inflated dollar, if that dollar we're talking about is federal spending, which has exploded at obscene rates under barack obama and george w. bush. >> you can at the macro sense, and it's not going to sink -- >> again, we're talking over ten years. >> it's a trillion dollars roughly over ten years, 80, $90 billion, this year is will be $45 trillion. it's only on discretionary spending. you're putting off to the side most of the budget, as you know, entitlements and everything else. and even within discretionary spending, it's quite limited. so depending on, for example, you can't touch personnel accounts and all that. so it will have more impact than it should. will it sink the economy? no. is it a smart way to run this airline of the united states? absolutely not. >> absolutely not. peggy noonan writes also i thought in "the wall street journal," i thought it was fascinating. >> "government by freakout. republicans on the hill, of course, are being cast as the

nihilists in the drama, as the ones who want to blow things up. but is that even remotely fair? they just lost a battle on taxes. they fought and accepted an increase in rates. what they are saying now to the president is okay, we gave you tax increases, don't demand more right now. work with us on spending cuts and a broad and coherent tax reform plan. don't do the kind of targeted loophole-closing that's just meant to torment the dead rich. do something more solid and comprehensive. and yes, let's move to do what we can on entitlement spending." >> willie, as long as the democrats and the national media had grover norquist as their strawman, it is this one man. it is this one terrible, terrible, small, evil man who is stopping goodness and justice from prevailing in america's budgetary wars. when they had him, this worked. he's no longer on the stage. and this whole tax cuts for the

rich boogeyman has also been taken off the stage because we had this battle in december, and republicans, as peggy said, got their hat handed to them. now the president comes back and says if we could only tax the rich. but these republicans don't want to -- and by the way, they want to slash and burn the budget. see, democrats are on thin ice, i think personally on this argument to say the world's -- everybody knows that bush spent way too much. everybody knows barack obama spent way too much. i don't think they buy this argument. on a gut level. >> yeah. i think you're right on most counts on that part of it. it's not going to tank the economy. it's just not. but there are real-world impacts immediately. some people will be furloughed. some people will work four days instead of five. there will be things in the short term. >> absolutely. >> in the larger question, it's not going to tank the economy. the bigger thing to me is we put this in as something so

draconi draconian, something so terrible that there's no way we could ever go there, and it would force the hand of our elected officials to do something about the deficit. again, if this doesn't do it, and it's not, sequester is going to go in some form by the theme we hit friday. what will? if they put in poison pills that won't kill them, what will change anything? >> how fascinating over the weekend, sort of a subplot going on here was the battle between bob woodward and the white house. willie just talked about how the draconian cuts were set up. the white house said it wasn't our idea. bob woodward said, yes, it was. i've got you guys on the record telling me before that it was jack lew's idea aproved by the president. the president came out directly earlier, and woodward wrote this all down this weekend where the president said the debate, oh, the sequester wasn't my idea. it was the republicans' idea. this past week woodward coming out, made them back down. this actually was hatched at the white house. but then you've got the white house lobbying rhetorical bombs

back at woodward saying he's not telling the truth. a fascinating back and forth there. >> i think the argument over who came up with it is silly because everyone voted for it, number one. >> except for the fact that the president's not telling the truth when he says it wasn't his idea. >> and -- >> that's not -- is that not -- is that silly when a president intentionally misleads the american people about who came up with this idea at a presidential debate? >> i think republicans looking at -- >> i'm just curious. can you answer that? if george bush didn't tell the truth to the american people on something like this, even a small matter, would that be silly? >> i think the whole thing is silly, yes. >> the president not telling the truth. >> i need to talk. hold on one second. >> i'd like you to answer the question, though. >> yes, it's silly. i'm answering. now i'm moving on. >> the president not telling the truth is silly? >> will you let me talk for a second, please? >> i'm just curious. when did we get to a stage that it's silly? >> i said yes. it is silly. >> the president is not misleading the american people in this important debate, if this is an important debate?

>> i think the republicans yammering away with who came up with it is is a fantastic ploy if you want to be a house republican forever. >> so the next time a republican doesn't tell the truth in the middle of what we're told is an important debate -- and i just want this for the record -- we're going to come back to this tape where you say it doesn't matter whether the president tells the truth or not. >> i didn't say that. >> yes, did you. >> i said it's silly if he's arguing that he didn't come up with this. the bottom line is, the white house came up with the idea. everyone supported it. the point was to come up with a better plan, and they didn't. and everyone should be ashamed of themselves, and quite frankly, arguing over who came up with it is not where we're at right now. we are four days away from cuts that will hurt people, cuts that are maybe not the right cuts, cuts that may impact our national security, and both sides ought to figure out how to cut $85 billion without doing such drastic damage to some people's lives immediately on friday.

and quite frankly, the president does have a plan on the table that involves chain cpi and about, i think, $400 billion in medicare cuts. that's better than the sequester. it is. so the republicans ought to stop bickering over who came up with this because everyone did, to avoid it. to come up with something better. it's silly. >> i think those -- >> that was my answer. >> -- richard house are very cogent points that i think the american people should consider and listen to and consider. and stop interrupting. >> what you have here -- >> in their minds. >> are you two done? >> yeah, we're good. everything's fine now. >> just having fun. a little fun in the morning. >> the white house is focusing on who came up with it. the real question here is where we go from here. people want to see when the polls come out. whichever side gets the preponderance of the blame. >> republicans always get the blame. >> but mika's on to something.

what's so discouraging about this, we're talking about a small amount of money in the larger scheme of things. you always have threats to cut fire engines first. we're not going to do that. the society will survive. the u.s. military will survive. and at the end of the day, we're no closer to anything serious on the budget. we're no closer to anything remotely serious on getting this economy growing again. this is such an enormous distraction from what really matters when facing the united states. that is what's truly depressing. >> i'll tell you, people always get tired of me telling stories about when i was congress. so i'll tell a story before i got in congress. the first thing i ever did politically was in 1993, lead a tax revolt, pensacola city hall tried to raise taxes by 65%. and they tried -- if we don't raise taxes 65%, this was right after the clinton tax increases and the state. and i was saying this is going to be devastating for our economic development. well, the city -- every city councilman got up there and

councilwoman saying we don't get 65% tax increase, the firefighters aren't going to be able to come and rescue your little doggy from the tree. when your children are going to walk down streets that aren't going to be -- and they went on and on, tumbleweeds are going to be rolling -- guess what? we killed the tax increase. you know what happened? they gave their 11 city managers a 35% pay raise the next week. how many times -- why do i bring that up? it ain't just pensacola. every time americans hear politicians on any level saying, you know, we've got to spend more money, or else the world comes to an end. they just don't believe it anymore. >> i have a list of the national horrors that are going to occur when sequestration takes effect according to the administration released last night. look, they -- you get the sense they have oversold fear. people are not buying the fear. >> who's "they"?

>> the white house. they've oversold fear with regard to sequestration. however you want to pronounce it. the other thing that's going on here -- and it's a pox on both their houses -- people aren't afraid of the dismantling of the economy so much as they're afraid of who are these people in washington? >> yeah. >> why can they get nothing done on anything? and to your point, anybody, anybody with a checkbook and children sits there and wonders, they can't take 3 cents out of every federal dollar? they can't do this? >> after we gave them the money for them to double that dollar, the spending, over the past ten years. >> they can't do that? they can't make those cuts? get them all out of there. >> recall. >> i thought your point was made. what i was saying, i was just moving the debate along. sometimes, you know, i just try to spur debate, right? >> that's what you do. >> i'm the stirrer. >> the pot stirrer?

>> the pot stirs the drink. >> that's what i am. >> really? is that what you call that? >> and i knew if i criticized the president -- >> right. >> -- that would wake you up, make you angry. because i love the president. i love them all. >> you do? >> i do. i love everybody. >> mm-hmm. >> and i just knew that if i criticized president obama, that would wake you up, and you'd get really angry and defend your man. and that's exactly what you did. >> you're the rodney king of morning television. >> i get no respect. i stir that drink. >> too soon? >> it is way too soon for a headache. >> what, to make rodney dangerfield jokes? >> rodney king jokes. >> oh, rodney king joke. yeah, it's way too soon. >> totally too soon. >> dangerfield. that's a horse of a different color. wow! rodney dangerfield is dead, right? >> yes. >> okay, it's too soon. >> too soon. still ahead on "morning

joe," transportation secretary ray lahood will be here. also, "hardball's" chris matthews. he's a movie buff. perfect day to have him on. economist dr. jeffrey sachs and legendary music producer clive davis. up next, yahoo! tells their employees if they can't work in the office, don't work at all. >> wow! so much for the new economy, right? >> okay. the impact of ceo marissa maie maier's decision next. first here's dylan dreyer with a check on the forecast. >> keeping an eye on the second blizzard in just a week back through the plains. blizzard warnings, watches stretching into the great lakes into the chicago area as well. you can see the snow is coming down real heavily through the panhandles of texas into oklahoma moving up into kansas. we also have the potential for very strong storms today down through the gulf coast states and the southeast. another foot of snow is possible through the plains. and that is going to spread into the kansas city area where a foot of snow is also possible out that way. in the northeast, we actually

have a nice day on tap. lots of sunshine. temperatures starting to warm up, too. we should actually get into the mid-40s in new york city today. washington, d.c., about 40 degrees. and up in boston, about 38 degrees later on this afternoon. and then tomorrow, looks okay. a couple of spotty showers in new york city. but new england should top out right around 40 degrees. we are getting to the end of february, starting to turn the corner into march. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life.

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gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone but her likes 50% more cash, but i have an idea. do you want a princess dress? yes. cupcakes? yes. do you want an etch-a-sketch? yes! do you want 50% more cash? no. you got talent. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on every purchase plus a 50% annual bonus on the cash you earn. it's the card for people who like more cash. what's in your wallet? i usually say that. 29 past the hour. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." from our parade of papers, "the chicago tribune." this week marks pope benedict's last as head of the catholic church.

benedict gave his final sunday blessing to a crowd of 100,000 faithful followers yesterday in st. peter's square, telling them he is not abandoning the church and that he will continue to serve god. meanwhile, cardinal keith o'brien, the head of the church in scotland, has announced that he is stepping down amid accusations of inappropriate and intimate behavior with current and former priests. the pope has reportedly accepted cardinal o'brien's resignation. >> god, mike, i tell you what. whoever the next pope is, they need to go on an all-out hunt. just no matter how ugly it gets. that actually could have been pope benedict's grand legacy over seven years. >> and it's not going to be. >> it's not going to be. >> no. they need to open the windows of the vatican. they need to let a cleansing ear come through, they need to clean out a lot of things. they need to be much more open

about the vatican bank and the finances of the vatican and the conduct and behavior of priests and higher ranking members of the hierarchy. >> if there is one. >> and theyed that cardinal mahoney of los angeles is allowed to vote for the next pope is outrageous. >> it is outrageous. and the fact is that the church, catholic church that i love, i'm not a catholic. that's probably why i love it so much, because a lot of catholics say don't cut him so much slack. i love the catholic church. i went to a catholic high school. but every year that passes by is a year that damns this institution even more. the little boys that were -- >> victimized. >> -- just raped whose lives were destroyed. and it is a church that allowed priests to be passed from one parish to another to another. i'm not relitigating it. i'm just saying whoever the next pope is should go on an all-out

hunt for these beasts and bring them to justice and just trust catholics across the world to be able to take the horrific news. because there's so much more bad news out there that they need to reveal. >> you can make a very strong case, i think, that this is the most critical selection of a pope in the recent history of the catholic church. and by recent history, i mean 500 years. because if they don't select the right person who comes in with the kind of edict that you've described, i think within 50 years, you're going to have a separate american catholic church. >> i think you may. you know, really quickly, you look at penn state. how many hundreds or possibly thousands of penn states were there inside this church? >> right. >> over the past 50, 100 years. >> "the washington post," after the meteor blast in russia injured nearly 1,000 people, a d.c. area lab wants to slam a

spacecraft into an asteroid to prove we can prevent a potentially catastrophic event. a johns hopkins team is writing a $150 million program to shoot a rocket at an asteroid as it passes close to earth. if successful, it would be the first time an asteroid would be knocked off its trajectory because of human intervention. >> this a big story from "the san francisco chronicle." marissa meyer, president and ceo of yahoo! is changing company policy. she's forcing all employees now working from home to report to the office. as you can imagine, many telecommuters not happy with the move. according to the paper, insiders say it will help cut the company's bloated infrastructure and get rid of employees who are not productive. this is a company that had been known for its culture. a lot of moms liked working there. you could work from home a little bit. apparently that won't be the case anymore. >> the deal with too many people

on the payroll. the irony of a digital company basically telling its people they can't telecommunicate, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. >> a mother actually at the helm telling other mothers, you're actually going to go back to the 1950s and act as if -- >> let's rationalize the payroll. also in this age of concern about climate change, kind of funny to tell everyone to get in their car and commute to yahoo! every day. >> that is bizarre. >> yeah, a lot of questions. i want to hear more about that. we'll follow up. but it's time now, willie, for "politico." >> chief white house correspondent is mike allen who's got a look at the "playbook." hey, mike. >> hey, good morning, guys. >> this morning on "politico," you've got a piece up, the nation's governors have assembled there in washington. "politico" reporting many of the top names on the democrats' side may be waiting on the sidelines, at least until after 2016. we're talking about running for president here because of one woman and one woman alone. >> well, that's exactly right, willie. the hillary factor was huge

conversation among the governors themselves as they talked this weekend. republicans are almost certainly going to go with a new generation, younger candidate in 2016. but for the democrats, the younger generation including martin o'malley of maryland, andrew cuomo of new york, they may have to wait. and they know it because someone who would be the first female president in history who hasek tear clinton's amazing resume, if you put that up against a governor's record of health care reform or gun control restrictions, there's no comparison. and they know that. it's already starting fast. look at south carolina. an early voting state. the first of the democratic states with a significant african-american population. in march, just next month, governor martin o'malley of maryland will be down there for state issues conference. probably in may, vice president biden will be at their big jefferson jackson day dinner. and look at the clintons. and this is what's inhibiting all those other guys.

in april, president clinton is going to be down there in south carolina visiting some old friends and raising money forrer issy mcauliffe, his friend running for governor of virginia. >> mike, if you look at that time line you've laid out, when would she have to start thinking about it and then doing some things behind the scenes to get that rolling? >> i think we're going to see it very quickly. you know, we've talked before about the early steps that she's taken to keep building a list, to keep her political organization in place. she's going to be out there speaking, working on her book. but we're going to see signs of whether a political organization is coming together. so far all the signs are that they're going to, but the problem for these other guys and why she's such a colossus over this race is, she can wait longer than anybody. it's like on the republican side. florida governor jeb bush can wait longer than anyone, and that freezes a marco rubio, inhibits fund-raiser staff who might go to work for him. >> only three years, eight

months until election day. >> counting down. >> mike, thanks so much. >> y'all have a good week. not a great start to spring training for the yankees. now curtis granderson breaks his forearm being hit by a pitch. we'll tell you how long he's going to be out and get you some more sports next. ♪ for tapping into a wealth of experience. for access to one of the top wealth management firms in the country. for a team of financial professionals who provide customized solutions. for all of your wealth management and retirement goals, discover how pnc wealth management can help you achieve.

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time for some sports. and we start on the racetrack. nascar beginning its season, as it always does, with the biggest race of the year. it was jimmie johnson taking the checkered flag at the daytona 500. his first win at the great american race since 2006. he's just the tenth driver in history with multiple wins at daytona. he won his first in 2006. johnson's win i won't say was overshadowed by complemented by danica patrick who became the first woman ever to lead a lap at the 500. she actually was in third place on the last lap. >> was she really? oh, man. >> so exciting. >> she raced really well. she finished eighth. she said she was disappointed. she'd replay that last lap in

her mind. she started on the pole, the first woman to do that. that's a great weekend for her and for racing. >> what a game changer. >> cool. >> absolutely. turning to baseball, bad news for richard haass and me yankee fans taking on the blue jays in spring training in tampa. curtis granderson facing j.a. happ drilled in the right forearm, tried to shake it off, but x-rays reveal a fractured right arm. he'll be on the shelf for at least ten weeks. that puts him out until early may. early candidates to replace him in the lineup, matt diaz and juan rivera. we've got jeter with the ankle. we've got a-rod, now granderson. we're getting a little old, aren't we? >> the yankees are going to be sponsored by the aarp this year. >> i know. we're looking for a catcher, too, with about a month ato go. >> alfonso soriano. the cubs will pick up his entire paycheck. how about a couple college

baseball teams brawling it after a rundown in the base paths. that's uc-riverside and sacramento state. >> oh! >> trading punches. legitimate punches during friday's game. >> that was a real punch. the guy, of course, didn't move when he got hit. >> three players ejected, all players suspended for four games apiece. can we see that again? that was unbelievable. >> why? >> there's just a little push. >> i mean, why? >> he pushed him a little bit. then there was some chatter. wow! a little rundown. oh, he pushes him. a little push. >> slight push. >> dude, you've got to lean in. i mean, come on. marco rubio going after the water. if you're going to do it, do it. >> he didn't even faze the guy who took the punch. >> it was almost like a-rod trying to knock a ball out of somebody's hand going down the first base line. you know? no, don't do that. turn around and keep going. i was just making a joke.

chris matthews, political wiz, but also movie guru. we'll get his take on the oscars and everything else. and "the new yorker's" david rennick. i know what you're thinking...

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that exists. this is my opinion. >> yeah, yeah. >> i think what the president has seen is our denial of the existence of the program, when it's obviously happening, undermines people's confidence overall in the decisions that their government makes. >> wow. that was robert gibbs talking about the administration's decision to keep quiet on america's drone program until only recently. we have some must-reads. >> it's like fight club rules, mika. you know what the first rule of fight club is, don't you? >> no. >> of course you don't. >> yeah. >> one of the great movies of our time. >> sorry. richard, what do you think? >> robert gibbs saying i was being asked a question about a program that i was told to say didn't exist. >> people are talking about it more now. i think what's happening with the brennan confirmation and all that is two issues. what is the criteria by which we decide when to use drones? i think the general sense that the criteria aren't right, they're a little too loose. and second of all, what's the

process by which we decide particularly when americans are the target. and i think people there feel there's got to be more of a process since obviously due process is not being provided. so i think what's happening is the administration now is going to have to open up this policy, both to get brennan confirmed, and more broadly, there's a lack of congressional and public support. the feeling is it's just gone a little too far. no one's talking about shutting it down but dialing it back. >> an overreach. >> my dad writes in "the financial times," "the cyber rage demands new rules of war. today the interstate rules of the game are degrading, highly sophisticated capabilities for inflicting violence on remote targets as well as cross-border, state-sponsored terrorism are undermining the clear demarcation of what is is permissible and what is not. indeed, the world community is witnessing an increasing reliance by states on covert acts of violence without declarations of war. leaders can now use long-distance air drones for

lethal strikes across national borders against targeted individuals occasionally killing civilians, too. calm and determined deterrence including intensified efforts credibly to identify perpetrators as well as readiness in effect to retaliate in kind -- must be the point of departure for new and genuinely reciprocal rules of the game. the need for such rules is becoming urgent." >> and richard, we've been talking around this table for a couple of years now about the dangers of going into countries where you haven't declared war and killing not only targets but also civilians. we've got to tighten these rules. >> we do. one of the problems, though, is the technology has so far outpaced the rules and laws. we see it with cyber. we see it with drones. there's a gap or a lag that's grown up. the other thing is you're right. sovereignty, had it came around literally in the 17th century was a big innovation. the idea was to keep the

kingdoms from constantly going to war with one another. what we're now doing is we live in a different world where we say sovereignty is no longer than absolute. it's conditional. again, there's a lag. we haven't quite figured out what we want to preserve and where we want to open things up. >> i wonder what would happen if an american went into mexico, and let's say they're involved in a drug war and killed a mayor on the mexican side of the border, and the mexicans decided ten years from now to drop a drone over the guy in dallas suburbs. i wonder how we'd react. >> a number of years ago there was a case of a dea going into mexico going after somebody. these are real issues. >> this is the question we have to ask. so if we drop drones in neighborhoods in countries where we haven't declared war, what's our response when the mexicans drop drones in dallas suburbs? of course, they would never do that. because, of course, we live by

double standards. and if they did that, our tanks would be to mexico city by nightfall. but if we want to see how the rest of the world looks at us in these drone wars, maybe we should start thinking about how we would look at other countries if they did the same to us. >> it ought to be an exceptional instrument. the truth is we're going to live in a world of proliferated drones where dozens of countries are going to have them. >> before we go, i grabbed a must-read out of "the new york times" magazine. >> that's exciting. >> not from this piece, don't worry, although this was amazing. this is by gretchen reynolds, and it's about exercising because a lot of people are on treadmills right now. i've been exercising indoors. >> it's great. it's changed my life. >> just wait. y you stride differently when running outdoors. outdoor exercise tends, too, to be more strenuous than the indoor version. in studies comparing the exertion of running on a treadmill and the exertion of running outside, treadmill users expended less energy to cover the same distance as those striding across the ground outside, primarily because

indoor exercisers face no wind resistance or changes in terrain no matter how subtle. in virtually all of the studies -- and i thought this was interesting -- the volunteers reported enjoying the outside activity more and on subsequent psychological tests, scored significantly higher on measures of vitality, enthusiasm, pleasure and self-esteem and lower on tension, depression and fatigue after they walked outside." and i just started running o outside again. >> yeah. >> it's true. >> it makes a big difference. i get distracted, mike, when i run outside. you know, you pass all those convenience stores. a lot of times i go in for a beer, a pack of cigarettes. i can run and smoke and drink at the same time. "hardball's chris matthews. >> what about you? >> there's nothing more exciting than being out in central park. >> please come help me.

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i juwant to acknowledge sten spielberg who i think is a genius. i want to thank canada, our fans in iran. i want to thank my wife. i want to thank everyone who worked on the movie. >> he may have been snubbed for best director, but ben affleck had plenty to say when his film

"argo" took home the top big prize at last night's oscars. >> how great. >> we'll talk about that. >> how great! >> and much more when chris matthews and david remnick join us. >> remnick, what part did he play in "grease"? tax refund time is here. i'm with malcom and kelly who are looking for a great new smartphone. you think you can find one at walmart? maybe. let's go see. alright. let him tell you about sprint. we've got the samsung galaxy s iii on the sprint 4g lte network for just $148! nice! wow. and -- you get a $50 gift card. awesome. we can split it. i don't think so. okay. [ earl ] see for yourself. get a $50 walmart gift card when you buy any samsung smartphone on the sprint 4g lte network. now through march 2nd. walmart. humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's,

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♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ ♪ ramble on i thank everyone in the movie, on the movie, worked on the movie, did anything on this movie gets thanked. i want to thank canada, our

friends in iran living in terrible circumstances right now. i want to thank my wife who i don't normally associate with iran. but i want to thank you for working on our marriage for ten years. it is work but it's the best kind of work. there's no one i'd rather work with. and i just want to say, you know, i was here 15 years ago or something. you know, i had no idea what i was doing. i stood out here in front of you all. really just a kid. and i went out, you know, and i never thought that i would be back here. and i am. and it doesn't matter how you get knocked down in life. because that's going to happen. all that matters is that you've got to get up. violet, sam and sara, i love you. this is for you. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us. and joining us on set, the host of msnbc's "hardball" and author of "jack kennedy: elusive hero,"

chris matthews. also on board this morning, the editor of "the new yorker," david remnick. the latest issue of the magazine is now out on newsstands. david, good to have you here as well. >> good to be here. >> so -- what? >> nothing. let's go through it real quickly. i can't wait to hear about everything. >> ben affleck and the crew of "argo" beat out films like "lincoln" and "silver linings playbook" to win best picture at the academy awards. "lincoln" had its day in the sun as daniel day-lewis earned his third academy award for best actor. the most ever in that category. he even flashed a sense of humor during his acceptance speech. >> it's a strange thing because three years ago before we decided to do a straight swap, i had actually been committed to play margaret thatcher.

and meryl was steven's first choice for "lincoln." i'd like to see that version. >> pretty good. >> you know, those two, though, they're the two greatest actors we have right now. >> you get the feeling they could pull it off. meryl streep as lincoln would be brilliant. i'd go to that movie. >> daniel day-lewis and meryl streep, without a doubt, are in a class by themselves. >> absolutely. >> as larry bird once said in the three-point contest, everybody else is playing for second. it was great seeing those two together last night. >> mm-hmm. it was a nice moment. rounding out the top awards, jennifer lawrence took best actress for her performance in "silver linings playbook." i was really happy to see that. anne hathaway won best supporting actress. christoph waltz took home best

supporting actor. there were lots of dresses. i don't know how to talk to you all about dresses. i know you're going to say something lewd. this is charlize theron, that's beautiful. anne hathaway had a beautiful dress on. well, me and jessie rodriguez were on the phone when she came out. we didn't agree. >> you disagree. >> but she's fantastic. and it was fun to watch. my daughters were watching the red carpet while i was working upstairs, and i could hear howls when they didn't like someone's dress. there's halle berry. i'm sure no one here will argue with that. >> except for george. >> judging from the response, charlize theron won the red carpet with her harry winston jewels. >> no response whatsoever. this is a situation, whatever you say, is going to go terribly wrong. >> yes, exactly. why don't you just do news. >> i did think that jennifer aniston in that red looked great. >> oh, yeah. >> i think she didn't try to

compete. she's just naturally great. i like her, always have liked her. >> were you surprised that "lincoln" didn't win best picture? >> no. i think all these movies are about today. i think movies are always about today. not just "casablanca." movies are made for the audience today and they react to it today. when people saw "argo" they applauded like mad at the end. people don't applaud at movie theaters. the excitement in seeing america, to cooperate with another country, to do it without bloody, killing everybody and to actually end up getting away from a place like iran we don't want to be in, it had all the messages of today. just like "m.a.s.h." was not really about korea. it was about vietnam. and i think movies are about today always. and i think it captures something. i also thought -- my other first impression was jennifer lawrence. when i saw -- i didn't know what to expect with "silver linings playbook." when i saw her, i walked out of that theater and said that is the best actor of her generation, bar none. i had never seen a performance like that.

so first impressions are very helpful. 5,000 people vote in this. >> daniel day-lewis, of course, i keep talking about daniel day-lewis and "lincoln." i left the movie theater really moved. >> i was stunned by that movie. i'm not always blown away by spielberg. he find him sometimes mockish. and the very beginning and the very end were kind of syrupy and filmed through gauzy light. i thought that performance and the script by tony kushner, the ability to tell the story and focus on the battle of the 13th amendment, legislative battle. can you imagine the sequel called sequester. >> do you have some of these chapters in your legislative life? you could do a whole hour and a half movie? i agree with you guys. to find that kernel of story. >> i also liked the debate about the necessity or lack of necessity for voracity for truth in a historical movie when it came to "zero dark thirty,"

"argo," when the mission went much more flawlessly in real life than in the movie. and lincoln and the battle in the end in the house. >> as far as "argo," it's so funny you say that. >> there was no chase on the tarm tarmac. that didn't exist. >> when i talk to friends that knew what happened and were actually around when that happened, they said, actually, it went off without a hitch. it was flawless. you couldn't do a movie. >> unfortunately, the much bigger mission of that period was the big disaster. which was the attempt to free the american hostages. >> the true story was the canadian version, and that was dull as hell. the american version was fun. >> it's the ultimate reality, the bigger reality was horrendous disaster on every count. >> so why are movies still -- you know, we've been talking about how the great stories are not being told on television. and yet movies had -- hollywood

had its biggest bx office year, and people are still transfixed. this is one of those few events. and they're getting fewer and fewer every year, but this is one of those events where most -- a lot of america still stops and gets in front of the tv set and watches. why? >> well, i think first of all, they're great stories told by terrific storytellers, but we're fools if we take it to be journalism or history as such or scholarship. absolute fools. you know, john ford did a movie on "lincoln," we would never substitute that for doris kerns goodwin history on "lincoln." these are movies. these are romanticized. "zero dark thirty." there you had the question of torture. you know, the filmmakers were pretending that this was real journalistic reality, real historic reality when, in fact, it was not. and i think they paid a price. i think the people that were voting on the oscars -- not that this is the most important issue in the world -- but torture is

an incredibly important moral issue for the united states, and i think those filmmakers paid a price. >> by the way, people in the intelligence community that knew what happened, it's very interesting, we've heard one side of the story where the left is saying hey, there are parts of this that just around accurate. there are people that were actually involved in the process that say hey, they've got us carrying people around in dog collars? they've mixed what we do, you know, and having them in dark dungeons when actually they were very clean, you know. >> john mccain is not the left. john mccain had real problems with this. >> john mccain is another issue altogether on the subject. i'm not going to go there. i'm just saying, i agree with your point. we haven't heard the other side of this also, chris, which is there's some abu ghraib in "zero dark thirty." and i think coming -- both ways, this is a movie that wasn't going to win it at the end because of the backlash. >> yeah. i think -- i think the academy awards you were saying is really

our second great mood ring, like our presidential elections. they really tell us so much about ourselves. they focus on race in the two big movies. "django" and "lincoln." all about slavery. the first time i've ever seen a plantation since "gone with the wind." this was realistic. i thought seth macfarlane brought back the old days of song and dance. and i know i'm old-time on this, but i thought bob hope and johnny carson were fabulous. i know everybody likes billy crystal. he brought back show biz. he really tried. there were over-the-top jokes about getting into lincoln's heads. coming back 50 years later singing "goldfinger." >> i was trying to calculate it. the movie came out -- no, it was like '65. >> i saw it freshman year. i'm telling you, it was old. 50 years ago. they call her the tom jones of tiger bay. she's an amazing figure.

and barbra streisand coming back doing "the way we were." what a great tribute that was. i thought it was great hollywood last night. really rich. >> and it's a great year for movies. >> mike was hoping for ursula andress to make her big comeback. >> a tremendous year for movies. every movie nominated was a terrific movie. the interesting aspect -- one of the interesting aspects, to your point, david, we got all caught up, a lot of us, over the last five or six months on the historical narratives in the movies. it caused me to think maybe we're doing that because we live in a culture and a country now where very few people really pay in-depth attention to current events in history on many sad occasions is so poorly taught by schools. >> the height of this kind of debate came with the jfk movie by oliver stone which was -- >> lunacy. >> conspiracy thinking at the lowest level. and yet there's no doubt about it, oliver stone knows what he's

doing as a filmmaker. you couldn't not watch that thing. >> and i understand we shouldn't get our history there, but unfortunately -- >> a lot of people do. >> -- this is not only how americans see ourselves sometimes. this is how the world sees america. the impact, the power, the soft power. you want to talk about soft power. all the satellite dishes in the arab world. >> i think it's true. but i don't think we should hold film -- i think filmmakers should be held to the terms that they're doing it on. if the filmmakers of "zero dark thirty" tell us that this is the absolute historical journalistic truth, then their feet ought to be held to the fire. >> i didn't say it was anybody in particular. they claim that was kennedy. by the way, the best movies ever are not really ak are rccurate. "laurence of arabia" is my favorite movie. >> tv laurence wasn't even accurate was the basis for that film. >> you can't improve on that movie.

biography's coming back, i noti notice, jon meacham's books, o'reilly's books, anything on biography now, i think he's going to -- what do you call it -- jumping the shark, now we're going to killing jesus. i don't think that's going to work. >> oh, no, it will work. it will sell. >> i think it's the same o'reilly book club. >> okay. shall we try and squeeze a little bit of news in here? >> i just want to talk about this yahoo! story. >> i love it. this is marissamayer. did you hear about this? she's told people who work at home to come back to work or to quit their jobs. it's the bottom line. insiders say that there are a lot of people who weren't productive who were working at home and that she's, you know, taking a look at the company. and i think that there's a lot of people criticizing her, saying, are you kidding me? a mom telling people that they can't work at home? having said that, how do you take a look at a company and

restructure it? >> people say i'm going to work at home. depending on what they do and depending on their circumstances and their -- the way they run themselves, some people get a lot more -- i'm going to ruin the day when i get back to the office today. but some people get a lot more done at home because they're not schmoozing with their colleagues or going to lunch. and they really come through. some people hold themselves up at "the new yorker" and do a piece at home in half the time if they had been schmoozing around the office. >> exactly. >> it depends on the job. >> yeah. i think if she's trying to make changes there and make it more productive, she does have to actually meet and see the employees that work for her. it could have perhaps been come in three days a week or started in a little bit more of a phased-in kind of way. >> but how fascinating. an i.t. company that was on the cutting edge in the early 1990s are the ones that are -- that she's actually going against the tide, basically saying this is general motors 1952. you come to the assembly line or

you stay home. >> absolutely. and when the web began, there was a lot of evangelical thinking about the web. information wants to be free, for example, in my business. no, no, it really doesn't. it wants to be distributed very quickly, but it doesn't want to be free, because then you get bad information. people want to be paid for good journalism. we could all stay home and commute from wherever and we can all meet on skype in some way. and that's not quite as effective sometimes as getting six actual people in a room and hashing out a problem. >> yeah. >> i don't think you'd want congress on skype. >> you've got to be collaborati collaborative. you have to actually be there to be collaborative. >> last night i kept thinking about how people can be creative. you saw it in the film industry. it's all collaborative. and that's why they get that stuff done. it's an incredible effort. >> i think it depends. and that's what's so interesting is she's having a one-size-fits-all approach. i can tell you -- i can tell you, i create better, i work better, i work longer when i can

dress the way i want to dress. when you put me in a coat and a tie and sit me behind a desk all day, i promise you by 2:00, i'm going to start fading and have to stand up and inspire myself to get up and walk around and come back. i think everybody's different. >> look at the movie "lincoln." i bet you there were thousands of meetings and maybe effective meetings there. but tony kushner alone in a room. >> right. >> is the basis -- that's how things get written. people don't chat their way toward a masterpiece. >> the guy that did the filming made it look real. it looked real. it looked like it was happening in the 19th century. >> as they said in the magazine, it looked like an academic painting of the 19th century. up next, a lot of news to cover. how might the sequestration cuts affect your town? we're going to talk to oregon governor about the real-world impact of washington's latest deadline debacle along with dr. jeffrey sachs. you're watching "morning joe"

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there are literally teachers now who are getting pink slips, who are getting notices that they can't come back this fall. >> we're not making this up, david, and we're not making this up in order to put pain on the american people. we are required to cut a billion dollars. >> senator coburn, is the president exaggerating the impact of these cuts? >> absolutely. it's a terrible way to cut spending. i don't disagree with that. but to not cut 2.5% out of the total budget over a year when it's twice the size it was ten years ago, give me a break. >> all right. joining us now from washington, democratic everyone goer from oron, governor john kitzhaber. and here in new york, the

director of the earth institute at columbia university, economist dr. jeffrey sachs. good to have you on board. we have chris mathews and david r ech remnick still with us. governor, the white house is certainly being accused strongly of fearmongering and scare tactics as it pertains to the sequester which i guess goes into effect this friday. what do you think the direct impact will be, and are they scare tactics? >> well, first of all, i have to say the very fact that we have a sequester represented smz kind of major failure in governance. i think this rhetoric around the sequester is a diversion from what we really ought to be talking about, which is the long-term debt reduction. and that's being driven largely by medicare and medicaid. i can tell you the growing cost of medicaid for every governor is squeezing out a lot more teachers and a lot more ability to invest in things like mental health and children and families than the sequester is ever going to do. >> chris matthews. >> well, what do you think is more important, to deal with the

long-term health care thing right now, or how do you get to it? how do you force two parties to do what they don't want to do? democrats say they don't want to do the cleanup in terms of cutting back on the cost curve until the other side does something on taxes. it seems to me they're both valuable to do in themselves. why is the other party asking them to do something valuable before they do something valuable? >> that's what goes on in this town. let me tell you about medicaid, the fact is that people who don't have health care coverage end up in the emergency room. then we end up treating a stroke in the hospital and those costs are shifted right back onto private sector employers. so first, if we don't address it, you're putting an additional burden on employers in a recession which doesn't make a lot of sense. secondly, with the expansion of boatbody of new money is going to come into states, and those are going to support teachers and have a ripple effect in the economy. and most importantly by the way, it improves people's health and reduces absenteeism and

increases productivity. there's a way to dramatically reduce the cost of medicaid without, in fact, dropping people from coverage and actually making them healthier. that's what we ought to be working on. >> how much is the current system crowd out right now investments in education, infrastructure? i'm talking for you, for the purposes of this conversation, medicaid. we usually talk about medicare here, but you're exactly right. you talk to any governor, democrat or republican, they will tell you that medicaid is crowding out investment and so many other essential areas. >> so in oregon, our revenues are growing at about 4% a year. the cost of medicaid at about 5.4% a year. and we've got a huge waiver from the administration last july and an investment of about $2 billion to fundamentally change the business model, that is reorganized financial incentives in the medicaid program, the estimates are that we'll save about $7 billion total over the next decade with this new delivery model. if you applied that to the medicaid programs across the nation, the decade-long savings are in excess of 1 trillion

dollars. if you're looking for a trillion dollars, why don't we do it by making people healthier instead of this approach that everyone apparently says we don't want to do but somehow we've got to do it. it doesn't add up to me. >> doesn't make sense. >> governor, it's jeff sachs. you've been leading on health care costs for a long time. what about outside of medicare and medicaid, just the overall health system? what do you see as the big priority to get the overall costs down? >> it's the same thing. we've got a business model essentially that was designed back in the mid-1960s. you're rewarded by volume. you're not rewarded by outcomes. and so you need to change the fundamental incentives in business model. we're actually doing that. we've got 15 new coordinated care organizations operating around the state covering 90% of our medicaid population. and we're committed to reducing medicaid costs inflation by 2% over the next two years, which translates literally into over $1 trillion in savings if every state did it. and the fact is, every governor

in the state is facing exactly the same problem. this is something we actually have in common. you know, one of the things that strikes me about the national governors association is that when governors get closer to d.c., they begin to act more like congressmen rather than, you know, governors. we have some common problems that really we have to deal with together. there's an opportunity here. >> all right. governor john kitzhaber, thank you so much. >> thank you, governor. >> you bet. good to be here. >> we appreciate it. jeff, the guy knows what he's talking about. we do. we've got a 1950s, 1960s model where right now we're rewarding volume instead of results. >> actually, our health care system probably is a 1920s and 1940s model in some way. we never made the health system work as a system. we don't even have the electronic records that almost all the other high-income countries are developing. our system is just so overpriced, so inefficient. medicare, medicaid pay a big

price for it. but overall, we're spending 18% of our national income when other countries are spending 12% of their national income to get the same results. so we've got a health system that needs pretty deep reform. that's pretty obvious. >> and david, obviously, you can get any governor on, whether it's jerry brown, whether it's rick scott, you can go as liberal or as conservative as you want. they all come to you and they talk about medicaid. medicaid's killing us. >> absolutely. >> and yet washington does nothing on medicare and medicaid. instead they keep going back, as he said, with a meat ax to discretionary spending, which is about 12, 13% of the budget. >> haven't we been reading stories lately, jeff, about a savings in medicare that have come through? >> you know, medicare started some ways to cut back on the fee for service. and they said if your patients return to the hospital, for example, within certain number of days, you're not getting twice the reimbursement. all of a sudden hospitals are

finding ways to operate the health system better, to take care that the patients take their medicine, to use community workers to improve the health care. so we have a system reform issue here. and i keep stressing, it's not just medicare or medicaid. that's about 5% of the 18% of national -- or it's 5 percentage points of gnp, of national income, compared to a much larger health system completely out of control. >> so what's got to be done? >> what has to be done is that we need a system approach where instead of just paying service by service, test by service, duplication, fraud, doctors that own their mri imaging and just put all their patients through it that in general, you get reimbursed for a coverage of a person over a year or two or three. and then you take care about their health, not about how many services you're providing or how many duplicate images you're

doing on an mri machine. >> chris, we're not tackling the central problem that's going to cause the great problems over the next 20, 30 years -- actually, next 10 or 20 years. instead, we're focusing on discretionary spending. >> yeah. >> because everybody's afraid to touch entitlements and try to reform entitlements in a way that would make a difference. so who's winning and losing this debate right now? richard haass said he suspected the white house was a bit on the defensive for overreaching. mike barnicle suggesting they're using fear tactics. what do you think? who's winning this? >> i think in the long run, the people that believe deeply in what they're doing will win. i think the people on the conservative side, even the far right, the tea party people absolutely believe -- this is one consistent thing. they may be concerned about illegal immigration and defense, but their primary focus is government spending. they feel there's a leaky plumbing system. and the money's just drifting away. they're just losing their wealth. >> what about swing voters? >> i think they think the conservatives might be right on this. spending.

i think defense -- the fact that we're willing to sacrifice defense spending, in the interest of cutting overall spending, tells you a lot. "the new york times" piece this morning is really telling. you and i were talking about it. a real hawk, a real defense contractor kind of guy saying no, i'll take the cuts. because we've got to cut government spending. i hear it all the time. i think it's the one wellspring of conservative belief, it's the one weakness the democrats have. actually i wrote this back in "the washington star" in '72. democrats ignored it, which is government spending. they've got to do something about it. >> and you think they're still doing it? >> democrats don't do windows. they don't do spending. of course, republicans would never invent social security. each party has its strengths. democrats do not get up in the morning and think how can i save government spending? how can i help these old people? how can i help with education money? that's what they think about in the morning. the trouble is the public goes to. they know who to go to.

go to republicans for tax cuts, democrats to make social security benefits all the way to the hill and make sure they get all the tests, mris, go to elm dids for that and go to republicans for tough defense and cutting spending. and they always get what they want. and the overall result is huge debts. >> but would you agree that the white house has put out a plan that does have cuts in it, or what do you make of these cuts? zbloo >> the president has said i will do cuts and reform if you guys do tax reform. >> loopholes. >> yes. my question is if it's a valuable thing to do, medicare, medicaid reform, do it. >> okay, but what's hard about loopholes? >> the republicans don't want to do it. and they control the house. >> okay. >> so you can talk all you want, but they control the house. they're not going to do it. i mean, i don't think they're going to do it. i think they're playing pretty tough on this. you think boehner's going to all of a sudden push his right wing into raising taxes? he won't be there. i think he's holding it hostage right now. >> if there's a big enough deal,

it will get done. but a big deal's not going to happen. nancy pelosi says we don't have a spending problem. she doesn't want to touch medicare. she doesn't want to touch medicaid. and republicans don't want to raise taxes. until you get both sides deciding that the situation is so dire -- >> or social security. >> or social security reform. >> i think overreaching right now, the thing that really is not credible is that these cuts have been cooked in books for almost two years. and the president's own budget has said, in advance, we're going to have these cuts. so kind of the hysteria of the last week doesn't play very convincingly that all of a sudden oh, the new theater. we're going to have no government. >> again, the president -- >> the president already -- >> -- had cuts going back to 2009. >> the president has for years had a budget in which discretionary spending in my view would cut too sharply. now that it's actually reaching reality, now he's blaming the other side. >> and that's exactly what chris was saying.

democrats don't do windows. and republicans never believe that proposed cuts four or five years out are ever going to come. you know why? because when they do come, democratic presidents act like barack obama's acting right now. that locusts are going to descend from the heavens, eat our flesh from our bones because we are doing what i said we were going to do four years ago. >> here's my one deep concern. it's macroeconomic which is that if this happens, and we continue to scare people, like every couple months, the president called a manufactured crises, one after another, it is going to erode confidence by the consumer and by investment, and if we have a second dip and obama has a second term, as the signature of a second dip, nothing else is going to work. so i think if the republicans are into sabotage, they're doing a good job. >> haven't we had republicans on our show that say they support closing loopholes and that would be the right thing to do? i thought we had. >> they say they have done it, raised taxes on the rich. >> we've got to go to break. we'll continue this conversation

with everybody except david remnick who has to go back to broadway. david, i want you to come back as soon as you can and talk about your trip to russia. >> anytime. >> that would be a fascinating political dynamic. >> boy, are they not in love with us. >> are you going to write on that? >> i will. thanks for having me. coming, a major shake-up at the catholic church. that and much more straight ahead on "morning joe." [ lorenzo ] i'm lorenzo.

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this week marks pope benedict's last as head of the catholic church. benedict gave his final sunday blessing to a crowd of 100,000 followers yesterday in st. peter's square, telling them he will continue to serve god. it was benedict's second-to-last public appearance as pope. he will make his final address on wednesday before stepping down from the papacy thursday evening. the first pope to do so in 600 years. but even in his final days as pope, benedict cannot escape the controversies that have consumed much of his tenure. this morning cardinal keith o'brien, the head of the church in scotland, has announced he will be stepping down amid

accusations of inappropriate and intimate behavior with current and former priests. chris matthews, a little bit of reaction from you. >> it's bad. >> it keeps going, huh? >> i grew up in the catholic church. >> me, too. >> we didn't see any of this. we thought priests had given up on sex as part of the holy orders and gave up on money and sacrificed their lives. those were the priests we knew, we thought. now we see nothing but headlines of people who had no intention of doing that. they couldn't have. >> cover-up. >> and the cover-up and the attempt to make the church look good, and it has made it look terrible. >> chris matthews, thank you very much. it was great to have you on to talk politics and oscars. see you on "hardball" at 5:00 and 7:00 here on msnbc. coming up, the chairman of the homeland security committee, congressman mike mccaul who says immigration reform is impossible without border security.

he's with us next. more "morning joe" when we come back. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.

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of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. here with us now, chairman of the house homeland security committee, republican representative from texas, congressman michael mccaul. good to have you on the show. >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> the reason he's here is two interesting. >> fascinating. >> he's a republican from austin, texas. >> yes. >> and he's a texas republican who's also catholic. >> oh. >> i don't know that i met, in my years in congress, a texas republican who is catholic. >> i just reach out to all walks of life, you know? >> i just assume, like me, you're southern baptist. you're a congressman from the south, but not you. >> irish catholic like chris matthews that just left. was with the mayor last night,

bloomberg. he wanted me to give you two gifts that i actually had for him, but i forgot. i left it in the room. one is a texas longhorn coffee mug. >> oh, cool. >> i love the longhorns, especially when we play them in the national championship game. >> my home city of austin, this is the big motto, "keep austin weird." >> it's kind of ugly. >> i can't see joe wearing that. >> i want you to wear that. will you, please? i dare you. >> i actually wrote a song one time called "austin, texas." the opening lines were, "i met a girl from austin, texas, who turned out to be an l.a. man. what's the deal with austin, texas? please help this redneck understand." so i relate to this. and when i see austin, texas, i'm going to be wearing that shirt. >> wear that baby down there. >> that's great. >> thank you. for the mug. >> you get the mug. he gets the shirt. >> it is a great mug. seriously, i love when the crimson tide play the longhorns

in national championship games. >> we want to give a replica of that shirt for mckinnon. he already has one. >> he is weird. >> made out of hemp. let's talk a couple things. first of all, we're talking about the sequester today. you are chairman, obviously, of homeland security committee. how would these cuts impact homeland security? >> well, i think they would have a deep, deep cut. i think that sequester was never supposed to happen. it was the president's idea. we proposed two bills to replace sequester. and the senate has failed to act. i think, you know, the president has a lot of capital now. and i think that he should be coming to the congress and talking about not just a quarter piece of the pie but the three quarters that no one's talking about, and that's the entitlement reforms. this is a major driver of spending. and if we're ever going to get this under control, that's what we need to tackle.

>> if there's going to be a big deal, obviously both sides will have to come to the table. democrats will have to come with entitlement reform. and republicans are going to have to come with tax reform that closes some loopholes. you think you could get enough republicans on board if there's a big enough package? >> tax reform, we're all for that, too. closing loopholes. but again, lowering interest rates while doing that. i think that's what we would like to do. i know boehner's tried to reach this big deal, grand bargain, and he feels like he got rolled under the bus by the president. >> so you would not be against closing loopholes? >> no, i think there are many -- and i think the speaker talked about doing just that. i think, you know, this can be done. this can be done. those are the two components, entitlement reform, closing loopholes, bring down tax rates. you know, i was reading a book about john kennedy last night, and he advocates cutting taxes to getting the american people's economy going again. rising tide floats all boats. and yet this president just raised taxes.

now he wants to raise them again. i don't think that's where his party should be going. >> let's talk also about immigration. obviously, you're concerned about borders. we're hearing that immigration reform is going to pass through. but you don't think it should pass unless border security is tightened. we had somebody from bloomberg, speaking of bloomberg, had somebody here last week saying that the crisis along the border is not as bad as it used to be because through attrition, a lot of illegal immigrants are going home. >> it's better. but it's not secure. >> how much better is it? give me some perspective. >> i was down there with mccain in arizona. and my counterpart in the senate, senator carper in arizona. look, it's better, but the technology piece is not down there. what i mean by that, the surveillance technology, integrated fix towers, we're going to get a lot of equipment from afghanistan and iraq we've already paid for to redeploy to the southwest border. i think that's smart. the more we get that done, the more people on my side of the

aisle will be more willing to have that debate about immigration reform that we need to have. i think we all recognize that. knowing who's coming and going is critical if you're going to do a guest worker program. >> which by the way right now the unions don't want the guest worker program. i think that's going to be part of the final package. you know what's so ironic, mike, is republicans right now are wary about immigration reform for a lot of reasons. they think it's going to pass. but you talk to them about what scares them the most. talk about the plan that reagan passed. which was amnesty. and it actually attracted even more illegal immigrants after the reagan plan passed. he said, listen, if we're going to pass reform, let's pass reform. but let's make sure we don't have a repeat of the reagan episode. >> yeah. and what kind of a threshold are you looking for that you'd feel comfortable with in terms of the technology that you were talking about? you're going to have cutbacks. you're going to lose border patrol agents. you're going to lose feet on the ground, aren't we? >> well, i think a lot of this technology has already been

budgeted for, which is the good news. i talked to the people at dhs about this. those towers will be contracted will be on the ground by next february. these aerostats in afghanistan that we've already paid for, we're going to bring them back. these are air assets to see what's going on on the ground. yeah, we may have to appropriate more for this, but honestly, we've been doing this for too long. it's time to get it done. and i think it will advance the immigration reform debate. >> congressman mike mccaul, we don't have enough time. he should come back. >> come back. >> come back. >> i'm here for the 20th anniversary of the world trade center bombing. one of the first things i want to do as chairman is to come up to new york, meet with ray kelly, see the counterterrorism operations. and remember that fateful day and make sure that that never happens again. >> thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> good to meet you. up next, "mojo football frenzy" with roger bennett.

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welcome back to "morning joe."

espn soccer analyst, roger bennett. roger, how was your weekend? >> it was a wonderful weekend of football, joe. >> how did everton do? >> joe, apart from everton it was a wonderful weekend. capital one cup. >> the league cup final. what happened. >> it was like the n.i.t. it is a little bit in stages but it was beautiful this year because it was a clash of two cinderella runs. the pride of wales. they are a minor league team. it is like the toledo mud hens getting to the world finals. this was a bridge too far. nathan dyer. look at that -- two through the legs passes allowing british tabloid editors to do that

"pleased to meet you" headline. swansea city, first trophy in over 100 years of that history. bradford city, go back to the grim textile town, knowing they are still the curlku -- second third in the chase after manchester united. joe hart with the save. he's a happy man. manchester city soon capitalized. david silva, the little spanish munchkin working the angles like paing th pythagerus. david silver created the second goal. how about chelsea?

it was good if you had the sound off, barnicle. chelsea falling away. manchester city 12 points behind. manchester united. can they close the gap, joe? 11 games to go. >> absolutely not. rafa is going to be fired. he is just a place holder. >> he is just a place holder. talking about place holders, david beckham, a wonderful moment for fans of the spice boys. he's like soccer's frank lautenberg. he just keeps going and going and going. >> oh, my god, i have no idea what just happened. >> wait a second. you just combined spice girls and frank lautenberg. what do you get when you mix them together? you get david beckham. >> that's talent. roger bennett, thank you. up next, hollywood's brightest stars light up the red carpet at the oscars. we'll bring you the big winners next on "morning joe." i moved here from russia and i gained weight

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and now for the moment we have all been waiting for -- and the oscar goes to -- "argo." congratulations. >> good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. do you know that it is time to wake up even if you are on the west coast and you were up very late last night at parties?

take a live look at new york city and have a cup of coffee. welcome back to "morning joe." back to us on set, mike barnicle and richard haas. obviously we have a lot to talk about. coming up. the sequester, of course, that's coming down to the wire. but of course, it was the big night at the oscars that everyone is probably still talking about this morning, complete with some redemption for ben affleck. he and the crew of "argo" beat out films like "lincoln" and "silver linings playbook" to win best picture. but "lincoln" had its day in the son as daniel day-lewis earned his third academy award for best actor, the most ever in that category. jennifer lawrence took home the best actress oscar for her performance in "silver linings playbook." she stumbled a bit on her way to the stage. i hate it when that happens but she's doing just fine. absolutely. >> oh, don't. >> stop it! >> what is wrong with you?

who would do that? some sick-os in the booth. that's just mean? >> b.j. is an infection. >> alex, who's there? >> come on. let's keep going. >> it's t.j. >> i'm going to fall down in front of the camera. >> i loved that movie. she was fantastic. i kind of had hoped that bradley would win but at the same time, there were -- it was a tough crowd. >> tough crowd. can we talk about -- go ahead. tell us who wins. then i want to talk about seth mcfarlane who got absolutely destroyed. rounding up major award winners were anne hathaway who won best supporting actress and inspired a few new twitter sites

last night. christopher waltz who took home best supporting actor. poor seth mcfarlane who i got to admit i don't really know. never seen the guy really. i understand he does "family guy" and either you love "family guy" or you absolutely hate "family guy." >> he did "ted." >> i saw that bear last night. >> was he that bad? i hate the smultsy stuff where they get up and play hollywood. >> it was edgy. >> tremendously talented guy. he had an edge in his monologues. the song and dance, tremendously talented. reminded me of you. >> i thought -- you have to remember, everyone hates everything on twitter. >> of course. >> you can throw that out. i think he was just different and he was also -- he's not one of them. do you know what i mean? so he comes into that room,

they're going, who is this guy? >> mixed review. >> "american dud." >> okay. let's show some of it -- because we have a lot of news to get to still. >> he's from connecticut. >> really? what part? >> kent, connecticut. rhode island school of design and most interesting -- missed because he had a hangover -- had a hangover, missed one of the flights leaving boston on september 11th. >> are you kidding me? >> honest to god. >> you're making this stuff up. >> i am not. here are some highlights from last night. >> "argo" tells the previously classified story about an american hostage rescue in post-revolutionary iran. the story was so top secret that the film's director is unknown to the academy. jennifer lawrence has a great attitude about this whole thing. this is a charming, talented

woman. i was talking to her backstage, she toll me whether she wins or lose, it is just an honor that meryl streep wasn't nominated. "django unchained." now that was an intense film. this is the story of a man fighting to get back his woman who's been subjected to unthinkable violence -- or as chris brown and rihanna call it, a date movie. oh! >> this is interesting. daniel day-lewis, not the first actor to be nominated for playing lincoln. raymond massey portrayed him in 1940s "abe lincoln in illinois." this is true. yeah. i would argue, however, that the actor who really got inside lincoln's head, a john wilkes booth. really. 150 years and it's still too soon. huh? >> yeah, it is. >> jimmy kimmel had done a jfk

joke at one time. it was the same punch line. oh, 50 years later. so the second he started telling -- i was like okay, this is all about the "too soon"? too soon? you still think it is too soon. >> absolutely. >> okay. whatever. i think most people agree with you, by the way. he wasn't so horrible? >> he was just more conventional. they are a's used to song and dance and -- hollywood. seth can sing and dance but he give them what they're used to seeing. >> the shatner stuff was something. looking to get to the news now. officials on the state level are trying to prepare for those across-the-board cuts set to kick in on friday. automatic funding reductions known as sequestration that would slash $85 billion in spending. president obama meets with the nation's governors at the white house today after the administration rolled out new

details over the weekend describing what impact the cuts will have across the country. according to the report, the effects include tens of thousands of lost jobs, as well as fewer resources for education and the environment, but some republicans say the white house is more interested in scaring people than finding a solution. >> senate coburn, is the president exaggerating the impact of these cuts? >> absolutely. it's a terrible way to cut spending. i don't disagree with that. but to not cut 2.5% out of the total budget over a year when it's twice the size it was ten years ago? give me a break. in politico -- by the way, there were tons of opinion pieces over the weekend on this. we pulled out a few here that really captured the conversation about this. rich lowery writes about the great sequester panic. >> by the way, i said we have a brzezinski underlining and

circling one of your columns? you may be making pretty good points. >> doesn't mean i agree were it. i vehemently disagree with it. >> you said i can't say this on tv but this is a really great op-ed that i agree with 100%. >> i really didn't say that. prepare for the end of food safety as we have known it. for a breakdown in public order, for little children languishing in ignorance. if only edward gibbon were here to chronicle the devastation. on march 1st, the fabric of our civilization begins to unwind. that's when the economy begins to stall and we turn back on our values all because the federal government will have to begin to cut a few tens of billions of dollars from the largest budget the world has ever known over the next ten years. the sequester amounts to a $1.16 trillion cut, or roughly 3 cents on every federal dollar. if we can't squeeze a couple of pennies out of every dollar, we might as well begin our great national bankruptcy proceedings. right now. it's hard to see how a cut of a

little more than $40 billion this year can possibly tank a $16 trillion economy. what i do agree with is how can you not cut $85 billion responsibly? how can they not come together and figure this out? >> by the way, take what rich said, combine that with what tom coburn said talking about how the budget has doubled over the past decade. really what we are talking about is we can't take 3 cents out of $1 today, but putting it in historical perspective, that's 3 cents out of a hyperinflated dollar. if that dollar we're talking about is federal spending -- which has exploded at obscene rates under barack obama and george w. bush. >> you can at the macro sense and it is not go to sink the overall economy. >> again, over ten years. >> a trillion dollars roughly over ten years. $80 billion over a year.

it is only on discretionary spending so you put off to the side most of the budget as you know, entitlements and everything else. even within discretionary spending it is quite limited. depending on, for example, you can't touch personnel accounts and all that. so it will have more impact than it should. will it sink the economy? no. is it a smart way to run this airline called the united states? absolutely not. >> peggy noonan writes also in the i thought "wall street journal," i thought it was fascinating. >> government by fraekout. republicans on the hill of course are being cast as nihilists in the drama as the ones who want to blow things up. but is that even remotely fair? they just lost a battle on taxes, they fought, got their heads handed to them and accepted an increase in rates. what they are saying now to the president is, okay, we gave you tax increases, don't demand more right now. work with us on spending cuts and a broad and coherent tax reform plan.

don't do the kind of small, targeted loophole closing that's just meant to torment us. do something more solid and comprehensive and, yes, let's move to do what we can on entitlement spending. >> it is this one terrible, terrible small, evil man who is stopping goodness and justice from prevailing in america's budgetary wars. when they had him, his worked. he's no longer on the stage and this whole tax cuts for the rich boogie man -- >> loopholes. >> -- has also been taken off the stage because we had this battle in december and republicans, as peggy said, get their head handed to them. out in president comes back and says we can only tax the rich, but these republicans don't want to -- by the way, they want to slash and burn the budget. see, democrats are on thin ice. i think, personally, on this

argument. to say the world's coming to an end? everybody knows that bush spent way too much. everybody knows barack obama spent way too much. i don't think they buy this argument. on a gut level. >> yeah. i think you're right on most counts on that part of it. it's not going to tank the economy. it's just not. but there are real world impacts immediately. some people will be furloughed. some people will work four days out of the week instead of five. there are things that will happen in the short term but in the larger question, it is not going to tank the economy. the bigger thing to me is that we put this in as something so draconian, something so terrible that there's no way we could ever go there and it would force the hand of our elected officials to do something about the deficit. so again, if this doesn't do it -- and it's not going to do it. the sequester is going to go in some form by the time we hit friday. what will? if they put in poison pills that don't kill them, what will change anything? >> how fascinating over the weekend. a sort of subplot going on here. it was a battle between bob

woodward and the white house. we just talked about these draconian cuts. the white house said it wasn't our idea. bob booed ward said, well, actually, yes it was, and i have you guys on the record telling me before that it was jack lu's idea. woodward wrote this all down this weekend where the president said in the debate, sequester wasn't my idea, it was the republicans's a idea. this past week woodward coming out, made him back down. this was actually hatched to the white house. then have you the white house lobbing rhetorical bombs back at woodward. >> i have a list of the national who are roars that are going to occur once sequestration takes aeffect according to the administration released last night. look. you get the sense they have oversold fear. people are not buying the fear. >> who's "they"? >> the white house. they've oversold fear with

regard to sequestration. the other thing that's going on here -- it is a pox on both their houses -- people aren't afraid of the dismantling of the economy so much as they are afraid of who are these people in washington? why can they get nothing done on any thing? coming up on "morning joe," the soundtrack of his life. legendary recording executive and music producer, clive davis, is here with his new memoir. a can't-miss for all music fans. but first, governor bobby jindal has this advice for the president. >> stop the campaigning, stop sending out your cabinet secretaries to scare the american people. >> thank you for that. up next, we'll bring in transportation secretary ray lahood to scare the american people. >> he said planes are going to break in half. you take off and it is going to be like hope that denzel washington is flying the plane. >> arguing that something you agreed to is now scare tactics is very silly. it is a silly let's not set up

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there are literally teachers now getting pink slips, getting notices they can't come back this fall. >> we're not making this up, david, and we're not making this up in order to put pain on the american people. we are required to cut a billion dollars. >> what do you make of secretary

lahood, a republican, blaming republicans for this? >> shame on ray lahood. no. listen. i understand. but i think there's a bob woodward piece in the "post" this morning that gives the tick-tock about who really -- the idea for sequestration was. and we know whose now it was. it came from the white house and the president's aides. >> 19 past the hour. joining us now from washington, the secretary of transportation, ray lahood. also with us, assistant editor and columnist for the "financial time times", jillian tett. mr. secretary, how seriously should we take how we're going to feel these cuts if they go into effect? >> well, look at when it comes to transportation, we have to cut a billion dollars. $600 million from faa. that's why we announced there will be a slowdown and delays from flights.

we'll have to furlough air traffic controllers which is the largest number of people at the faa. we're not doing this because we like it, we are doing it because we are required do it. it is in the law so we're sending up a warning flare, not to scare anybody but just so that people understand there are consequences to this sequester and it can all be avoided if people in both parties would embrace the president's plan, which is well over $86 billion in savings and take a look at the president's plan. it is a good one. it saves the money that needs to be saved and it doesn't take a meat axe approach. >> i think some of the republicans don't agree, they have issues with taxes and feel like they've been rolled on in the past and don't want that handed to them again. stla a fair argument and that the white house is now using scare tactics to corner them? >> we're not using scare tactics, mika. we're sending up warning flares to people that these cuts have

consequences and here's what the consequences are. that's what we've put out. not to scare people, but just as a warning that there are consequences. this all can be avoided -- the president has a plan. it cuts well over $86 billion. republicans should take a look at it, move towards it. if they don't like it, sit down and talk about it. there's still time. we have a week now. all these members of congress are coming back from their districts and they have a chance this week to meet half-way and work this out. the way they did with the financial cliff, by the way. >> mike barnicle. >> mr. secretary, your name was on the ballot for many years and i'm sure you realize that many people in your old district and around this country look at this issue and look at the conversation on both sides of the aisle over the past couple of weeks and wonder about competence and governance and people in washington being consistently unable to get

anything done. the larger issue of anybody with a family and a checkbook can't figure out, you people can't take 3 cents out of every federal dollar? you can't do this without gutting vital services? where is the competence here on both sides? is there any? >> of course there is, mike. and look -- i go back to what i said before. the president has put out a plan and it cuts well over the amount that sequester is requiring. and look at, if republicans don't like that, come to the table. let's have a discussion the way that we did so we averred the financial cliff. this can be done. it's been done in the past and there's a plan there. it's a pretty good plan. if you don't like some parts of it, then let's talk about it. but there has to be a discussion this week so that people do have the confidence in their leaders that these things can be avoided. >> you think something a's going to get done this week? >> i do, mike.

i really do. i'm optimistic about this. i just think there is an lot of share pain that's going to take place starting on march 1st if this sequester goes in. i don't think anybody really wants that to happen. >> all right, secretary ray lahood, thank you very much. >> thank you. jillian, are we going to have a deal? i think he's overly optimistic. >> one thing i would say, when you look at this airline issue, it strikes me as a lot of political drama and theater involved in this. the thing about airline or queues at airports, they're very visible. they make great television. checks going out to the unemployed doesn't actually make great television. but there's nothing like having crowded airports bringing emmemories of 9/11 to get people panic stricken. i think it is 50-50 whether they get a deal at the end of the week. >> i don't know if you saw jeff sax's chart. it is fascinating. the chart actually shows that

even with the sequester cuts, discretionary spending will be love what the president projected in his own budget in 2009. as a percentage of gdp. which means that all of this terror that we're hearing about, it seems like it is all cooked up. >> not to reference another network, but candy crowley pointed out in her earlier interview with lahood that even if they cut all the budget they're still $500 million above they they were four, five years ago. in terms of whether there will be a sequester, my biggest fear is that they're going to find some sort of deferral agreement and we're going to have this conversation multiple times. even if this goes into sequester, it doesn't solve any of the big problems we have in the macro. >> mike, spending is double as tom coburn said over the past decade. government spending in these areas doubled. $500 million more now spent than

we were spending several years ago. and we're told this is the end of the world if we cut 3 cents out of every dollar, a dollar that has been hyperinflated over the past decade in government spending. >> what is going to happen, what is going to be the mindset, sequester occurs march 1st and it continues for a period of weeks and months as they argue back and forth and nothing really much happens to daily life in america? >> unless we get those airport queues. >> you really think that would be the catalyst to get this turned around? >> no. but i think if you're trying to use something to demonstrate -- call me a cynic. >> by the way, we have to be really careful about that. because you know what? that's the sort of thing that a staffer suggests that's two cubed by half. then someone starts figuring out how they moved tsa employees around to make lines longer in new york, washington, chicago,

los angeles. and then suddenly it blows up on the administration. >> it will make great tv but i don't think it will have the residual effect that they perhaps diabolically are planning on. because if you've lost your job, if you're working a job that pays you two-thirds of what you were making four years ago and you are you a lucky to have that job, you're not flying anywhere. you're driving to the grocery store and you're damn glad that you can pay the grocery bill. people standing in line to go to orlando or chicago? you say i don't care about them. >> the other thing to look for right now, apart from these whole political drama is what the market is going to do and the rating agencies are going do. it is worth remembering over the weekend we had one shock in europe in terms of rating agencies downgrading the uk. the u.s. has already been downgraded but there could be a lot more debate on that issue which is going to affect the whole debt dramas, too. >> all right. so bringing it down to every day life and our wallets, brian, you are looking at a study of habits, spending habits. >> bank rate says that 24% of

america has more credit card debt than money in the bank and 16% have neither. so basically 40% of the population are in jeopardy of complete failure any moment and 60% are doing just fine. and so -- that's why i want to bring it full circle to whether it is gas prices coming together with a payroll tax hike, you're not going to know -- if sequester kicks in and people lose jobs, you won't know exactly where the pain is inflicted so it will be this pointing finger roundtable of what's hurting the consumer. >> but the irony there is, if you look at credit card debt right now, actually credit card balances overall are back where they were ten years ago because americans have actually paid off a lot of debt already. many ordinary consumers are saying we've got control of our household finances, why can't congress? coming up, did the president propose even deeper cuts in his budgets than what's on the table in the sequester? economist dr. jeffrey sax rejoins the table with some numbers that could change the budget debate. also ahead, legendary music

producer clive davis is standing by in the green room. he'll join the conversation ahead on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national.

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welcome back to "morning joe." jeffrey, you brought some charts with you this morning but also some fascinating information about the hidden history of the budget. tell us about it. >> we have these cuts coming on march 1 and there's a lot of hysteria about them. but the point is they've been cooked in the books for years. this whole decline of discretionary spending was part of the first obama budget. it is part of the second one. part of the 2012 plan. now that it's actually happening, there's a lot of screaming about it. i don't think these -- >> wait, wait. so if you look at this chart, actual lit president's plan -- in 2009 actually had cuts going even lower than the cuts that we'll have if the sequester goes through. >> yeah. this is a chart showing the level of discretionary spending measured as a share of national income. and the president already said back in 2009 that that discretionary budget is a share of national income would go down sharply. i don't think that's the right

policy but that was the policy. the reason it was the policy is the president wanted to campaign on making permanent almost almost of the bush era tax cuts. if you do that, you you can't afford discretionary spending. if also you don't solve some of the other problems. so the point is that the cuts that we're having have been a little bit preordained. it is not a matter of suddenly waking up and seeing this terrible thing. we've had -- we haven't had the kind of leadership to get us out of this mess for years. >> you look at the chart, the president's been planning this for four years. so do you agree with those that would say the sequester is a bad thing, like tom coburn, for instance? but given the choice of having -- cutting 2%, 2.5% of the budget or doing nothing, it is better to cut 2.5% of the budget this year? >> i didn't agree with the deal made on new year's day to make permanent tax cuts that we couldn't afford. once you decided to do that, then you gave up $4 trillion of

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sony music entertainment, clive davis. also the author of the new book "the soundtrack of my life." it is such a pleasure to have you on the show. my daughters an i watch you on "idol." you've reached a new generation of tweens. >> they may not appreciate this picture as much as mike and i would right here. three boys from the outer boroughs right there with simon and garfunkel, 1970. but your career is remarkable and it started in a remarkable way. you went to the monterey pop festival where janice and so many others just exploded on to the scenes. and that was your first big find, wasn't it? >> that was my first test. i came from not a musical background and through a political reorganization i was a lawyer for columbia and i was made president overnight and when you do that -- >> that's a good jump, isn't it? >> you observe, then a year later i thought i was going to

be entertained and i found myself in the midst of a musical cultural revolution. i'm on those fairground in the midst of haight-ashbury and janice joplin and big brother and the holding company holds on. she was this vibrating, electrifying, compelling white soul sister. if the word epiphany is going to mean anything, for me it was -- i had to make my first creative move. there were no other executives there. i had to sign my first artist. >> what was your hunch about going to monterey? everybody talks about woodstock. yes, that was a watershed event but that really marked the end of an era. monterey, the festival that you went to -- >> i had a record, it was the first record, hit, that i had. if you go to san francisco, be sure to wear flowers in your hair. that was a hint that what was

going on at haight-ashbury in san francisco. i really went there expecting to see the mamas and papas, to see simon and garfunkel. i was not prepared for the musical revolution of the electification of the guitar, groups like the electric flag, the who, jimi hendrix and this brand-new group featuring janice joplin. so it changed the rest of my life. >> but, you know, as you indicated, you went to harvard law school. >> yes. >> you grew up probably walking down the street singing frankie valley songs and frank sinatra -- >> factor in brooklyn. not just harvard law school. >> so what is it? what was it within you that you're at the monterey music festival and haight-ashbury and you hear the san francisco songs and you hear these groups and electric guitars. what was in you that enabled you to say -- >> it was an undiscovered gift

that was going to prove itself over the years that i saw this artist, and whether it's cliche or not, i got this tingle in my spine. i felt it and it was just something that was to come again and again over the years. but she was the first one and i bought her contract. and when she and big brother a year later was making it, by that time i signed blood, sweat and tears, few months later santana, and i started to trust obviously my track record was starting to unfold and -- >> you trusted your instincts. you can't buy that. people ask where that comes from. whether it's music, whether it's movies, whether it's tv. you either have the gut or you don't have the gut. how many executives have we all seen, whether -- whatever media world it is -- where they just wring their hands and they're trying to guess and they spend all their time saying i'm going to pick this person but if they fail i can blame such and such

because they don't have the gut. >> that's true. >> when did you first figure out, okay, i got this. >> as i was just saying, when a year later i unveiled -- because i kept it quiet that i had signed blood, sweat and tears and janice and they started to make it more through the fm underground. and then very soon thereafter came carlos, the santana band, and chicago, johnny winter and edgar winter and earth, wind and fire so that i felt that i might have an unexplored natural gift. >> these weren't safe picks either. i mean blood, sweat and tears, a band i love. but you wouldn't say, you know what? that's the next big thing. and when i die, so many great songs. "spinning wheel." amazing. look at this picture right here. a young whitney houston when she's signing, mika. >> tell us about the loss of whitney houston.

she was quite a superstar. >> i signed whitney when she was 19. i immediately brought her on national tv on the merv griffin show. i said that for the next generation she would be the big, big new talent. so that from then on, she was just not an artist that i signed in my administration. i found with my staff every song that whitney recorded. so we went through the heights of an incredible career breaking every single record at every stage. obviously we all know that she fell victim to drugs, powerful, lethal force. i describe in my book how i both approached her, reasoned with her, wrote to her. and you learn, helplessly, that until the subject falls to a

certain level, they've got to help themselves. i was with her two days, three days before she died. we had a fabulous afternoon, playing music as we always did for each other. neither of us could possibly have comprehended that she was flirting with death. >> you know, that's what's fascinating. right? have you this special ear to recognize a great talent, but there is the whole element of managing and involving yourself with that talent as they go through their careers. right? there's two things. recognizing the greatness, then helping it steward itself through their life. what's different between the janice joplin era and managing that talent and managing talent in 2013? because people talk about the entitlement generation and all these other things. but is it really that different? >> for a record company, i'm not a manager. i'm very involved, more involved if i'm dealing with entertainers

that need me for material as compared to self-contained orders to write their own material. and there you wait. i had -- you wait for a patty smith whom i also signed or currently an a alicia keys, a young renaissance great talent so that there isn't difference as i interact with them. i mean you don't get into their personal life unless there is a crisis that develops. >> so given how the music industry has changed, do you have any -- you may not -- any advice for parents of struggling up and coming song writers or singers? i speak as one myself. >> i view music very positively. you're dwelling on it from a tragedy and i understand that. and there have been a few. but i don't think it is endemic -- >> i'm actually just tryi talkig about trying to break in. how do you tell a child that wants to break in. >> life's been very good to me.

i've endowed a student in my name so students can study music. i always envied those that studies movies at usc or nyu. at nyu there is this institute to train them, to get as much input. if music is part of the passion of your child, let it flow. i mean -- and see where it takes you. it's been an incredible career for me. on the other hand, if it's a mediocre talent that's just ambitious, you you've got to be able to guide that, because music, show business, is very seductive and you can waste an awful lot of your life pursuing something that's just okay for you. so you really have got to be on top and be realistic, not be a stage parent but really see if you've got a gifted child. >> fantastic advice. >> i'm going to get serious about tv. i keep thinking i'm going to break through. i need to go to school. >> he wants toob songwriter.

>> i've heard that. >> it's true. >> you know what? i'm going to get serious and get another career. >> the new book is "the soundtrack of my life." clive davis. thank you so much! >> how exciting. thank you for being here. great honor. >> well thank you so much. coming up next, oh, god, things go downhill from here. lewis schmoozes his way on to the red carpet. i don't even want to tell you what he did to get to the red carpet at the "vanity fair" oscar party. >> we never got to. my health risks. but she's still going to give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is,

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after last night's awards were handed out, the stars were all headed to the "vanity fair" oscar party and somehow lewis got past security. he's out of control. he's out of control. >> lewis, what are you doing? >> seriously? all right. here's lewis on the red carpet. >> pretty boy lew. >> i'm at the "vanity fair" oscars afterparty. most exclusive party in hollywood. and of course, i'm on the list. ♪ >> joe and mika, miss you guys. why aren't you out here with us?

>> they're not here in. >> we love "morning joe." >> mika, the only reason i'm doing this is for you. >> we all love mika. >> joe, mika, hugs. >> hello, "morning joe." we won six oscars -- wait, we won six oscars but we feel like we won six oscars. >> i watch "morning joe" every morning. >> i always liked joe. he's smart. >> you can photo bomb any celebrity tonight, who would it be? >> that's a really good question. >> photo bomb means you stick your head in the back. >> liam neesan? >> liam neesan? that's a good one. >> jennifer lawrence. >> probably daniel day-lewis. >> daniel day-lewis. i already got a good picture of him. i love him. >> maybe daniel day-lewis if he's dressed as lincoln. >> we did a little something like that. >> just like that. >> you got it. >> i cried like a baby when ben

affleck and "argo" won. >> incredible, incredible speech, ben. >> i didn't think he had a shot. >> i'd say "les mis." >> i was very moved by ben affleck's last speech. >> i'm going "argo," "argo," "argo," "argo." >> in story sessions for the next decade or so, people are going to be referencing movies. they'll say remember how they handled that moment in "lincoln"? >> it's steve martin. steve martin is calling. >> yeah, steve. i'm doing an interview with "morning joe." i'm on the red carpet. >> how do you feel to have been innen anne hathaway's speech? >> she totally deserves that oscar. >> i thought you and i could -- >> don't be ridiculous. >> -- do a little picture. ♪

>> oh, my lord! too soon? too soon? >> hey, that was a good pack. >> talking about the little guy. lewis, how about our lewis! what a great job he did. >> i want to know how many takes -- if did he that, i want to know the ratio of people no to yes for pictures. >> how many autographs do you think he asked for? >> i don't know but he's still probably trying to follow allison williams around this morning. probably got a cab, followed her, figured out where she's staying. she made a bad mistake talking to him. >> how bolong does it take to g a restraining order in l.a. county? >> brian williams is going to find out right now. brian's calling the lawyers in l.a. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today?

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the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. the fall on the way up to the stage. was that on purpose? absolutely. >> what happened? >> what do you mean what happened? look at my dress. i tried to walk up stairs in this dress. that's what happened. >> what was going through your

mind when your foot -- >> what went through my mind when i fell down? a bad word that i can't say. that starts with "f." >> wow. >> adorable. >> isn't she something? >> yeah. >> how great. handled it well. what did you learn today? >> i actually learned that you can use senator lautenberg and david beckham in the same sentence. >> that was fascinating. mix them all together and what do you get? actually spice girls. frank lautenberg, put them in a pot, mix them up and you get david beckham. mike? >> i learn that i remain, right now, stunned at lewis' piece. stunned. stunned. >> wasn't it great? >> he did a great job. >> the guy had to be doing it all night. 3:00 w4b:00 th 3: 3:00, 4:00 this morning.